I don't know exactly for how long I've been playing BareBones, but for really long. I felt in love with simplicity of the system and possibilities it gives to GM while also being extremely easy for new players to hop in. I had people who have never played any RPG before and they has no problems creating characters (with my aid of course) and role playing them (DESCRIPTORS are THE BEST!). As v2 is hopefully coming I've decided to share some of my experiences and thoughts. Later on I plan to write some inspirational stories taken from my recent campaigns that took years of actual game play.
But - first things first. A little disclaimer - if any of my players somehow end up reading this, please stop now. It may contain information that can spoil your fun :)
I. Beginners in short campaigns/one shot settings
This is the scenario where BareBones really shines. I literally met no one who'd have any troubles playing a character in BareBones. In low level settings the balance between different skills is in my opinion perfect (low level meaning Skill level 2 max). As stated before - the descriptors system as a way of describing character traits beforehand and than awarding for playing with it is what I call a pick lock unlocking every possible obstacle in beginners.
I believe that in fact this is the audience the system was built for, as any flaws that I will describe later simply does apply here.
Of course - there are a few places where new players have problems. They are not fault of the system, but worth noting. Those are:
- creating interesting descriptors - even as experienced GM I have sometimes creativity block when it comes to that.
- using spells in interesting ways - experienced play appreciate that Offensive Strike can be fireball or Poo Bolt (believe me it happened in hilarious ways), but newcomers does not see those opportunities. In the first few sessions they want attack to just an attack an not a strike to leg that partly immobilizes opponent and offensive strike to be just some force they don't want to deal with.
- remembering what all the abilities connected to the skills really are
II. Intermediate players in longer campaigns
First problems struck when players get to skill levels 3-4. As a GM I watch meta-game and try to show players different compositions and advice them on spending experience, but it always ends the same way. Magical users are just hoarding all experience and put them into one skill of their choice, while the others are trying the best to find useful spot (sometimes successfully!). This is also the time when my job becomes harder as bestiary in rule book becomes not enough and I need to spend more and more time preparing mechanically for the sessions. It may sound unimportant, but as being more of a story teller than dungeon master I like to have mechanics not getting into my way when preparing session and have most of it happen in my head.
The main problems I see at those levels are:
- non-linear scaling of spells - it is really ridiculous that spell caster going from skill lvl 2 to skill lvl 3 is in fact becoming twice as powerful, or even more, while warrior is just getting +10. I know opponents may have spell casters too and so on, but I'd like to see all players engaged in a game in similar way, not just protecting mages/enchanters and watching the show.
- uselessness of some skills (Scout and Scholar, it's about you!) - with more powerful teams Scouts are becoming obsolete as players would get bored role-playing survival sessions while having so much more potential. At the same time scholar lvl 1 is more than enough for obvious reasons (that's why I house rules Signs & Portents to actually require a skill check. But then players stopped taking Scholars at all)
- too small bestiary. I appreciate that the book is short and understand there are rules to create new monsters, but if there is one thing I'd like to see more is way larger bestiary. I know it was in the works and hope it will be supplemented with 2nd edition (please take my money ;) )
- pointlessness of spending experience on stats. I think it needs no explanation - going all in for skills gives more bonuses and abilities. I tried to convince my players that stats are for resistance rolls and dodging but... They've calculated it pretty well and it didn't make sense.
PS: Leader skill is great. In my group there always is a place for a leader and my players are role-playing it extremely well, up to the point where if they cannot come to agreement - leader character makes a decision. Their abilities are also useful if there is anyone left standing after first turn of enchanters and spell casters, which happens at that skill levels.
III. High level power-gaming in the long run
I have a few players that would prefer to kill their character than spend one experience point in the non-optimal way. I don't agree with that way of life, but they are who they are and who am I to blame them? I have tried many house rules, some of them noted below, but it always ended up in Spell casters/Enchanters (or both in one character) taking the role of leaders and the rest of the teams are just following.
So to note what goes wrong:
- Players advancement is really quick if done optimally, so the campaign must follow quick curve from villagers to entities of epic power, reshaping the world. Below are some ways I've tried and new ideas I will try to slow it down.
- Enchanters with all runes set to area offensive strike going into battle are game breaking. If any opponent survives it, there are high chances they are powerful enough to destroy all party afterwards no matter what other characters are.
- Spell casters are way overpowered. I know DwD folks have different opinion, so I won't get into details as it was all written many times before. It's just another vote.
- once again - bestiary at this point is nearly useless and most of enemies my players were facing were created on the fly. It worked, as we are not dungeon crawling, but role-playing, but it'd really be of great help to have more supplements here.
Now time for some house rules that I've experimented with and how it went:
- To slow down character progress I've added the rule that you cannot have a skill more than 2 levels higher that the next in the line (so to get lvl 3 you need another one at lvl 1, to have lvl 6 you need another at lvl 4 and another at lvl 2). Sounds strange, but it really worked very very well. It also convinced people to try enchanter that sounded hard to play in the beginning. But, well - I'd prefer they didn't ;)
- I was adding custom classes in my campaigns (like humanity for campaign with mechanical constructs, or elemental affiliation for fully elementalists and so on) - this one also slowed down advancement and have added great flavor. I must admit - BB is extremely great to create new content in really short time. And if you are careful it will probably catch a glimpse of balance at least on low levels.
- I was also giving spells to spell casters at random. This way for first levels they weren't as overpowered. This in fact gave more place for clerics to have more Aid in the team, but at high levels it made no difference.
What I'd like to try in next campaign is giving requirements for skills based on stats (like to have lvl X in skill you need 40+10*X in stat corresponding with it). I don't know if it will work out, but will surely slow down progress by an order of magnitude and I like that!
IV. Bonus chapter about supplements
Now is the time for huge kudos to the designers for supplements to the game. They are simple yet extremely powerful:
- Flesh and Blood - it's so fantastic I have literally no words for it. The diversity it adds to high fantasy setting is overwhelming. Sometimes I allowed players to choose any races they wanted in any configurations and it was a blast!
- Keranak Kingdoms - pretty nice inspiration there, but nothing extraordinary
- Menagerie of Minor Magic - now this still is my trove of treasure. As a role playing group I see my players appreciate much more some useless magic item that they don't know how to use at first and need to do something around it than another +1 sword. And this book is full of those precious gems!
- Of Towns and Heroes - this little precious gem have already created one of the best campaigns I've ever ran. When players have decided to just not follow along with what I imagined they would I made one roll, read one paragraph and it took entire campaign (of a very epic scale in the end) into completely new direction that everybody loved. In the end Keranak province was totally wiped out and turned undead with help of a party of mechanical constructs. All it took was one roll and one paragraph of inspiration. Priceless supplement!
- Decahedrons - they are full of great supplements, but one problem with them is lack of organization. Using those supplements is simply impractical during the game ("where was what? Decahedron 1 or 2? Which chapter?" and so on). It'd be really great to also have single document, well organized, updated when new Decahedrons come out.
V. Epilogue
It became really long text. I hope it will provide some value. My intent is to come back when I'll find some time and write about experiences of my players clearly for inspiration of stories and some rules for specific settings, but here I've tried my best to compress all the impressions of the game. Thanks for the reading :)
BareBones Fantasy RPG is not associated with Skaldcrow Games' Bare Bones Multiverse, despite similar names. Check out Glenn's products by clicking here.
These points are fantastic feedback! Yes, the game as-is is optimal for one shots and low level play. Though I have run long term campaigns that prove it can be used for higher level play as well, though admittedly a lot of effort is required on the part of the GM to do that. For higher level play, magic is very powerful. While that was intentional for the setting and style of play Larry and I prefer, we understand that others don't seem, as a rule, to share that preference. For second edition, a lot of effort is being placed in attempts to level-out some of this. It's honestly difficult to balance the feedback we get against one another. For instance, at least half the people HATE the Leader skill, while others LOVE it. Half the people want to broaden out skills (for instance, I constant get asked why Scout can't be used to fire a bow) while half want more skills with more specific uses (a Thief skill, specifically, can do too much with one skill). We may end up making a few things "Optional" in order to feed different play appetites.
OP I agree with you on nearly everything that was mentioned. High-level plays are really off whack with magic users. Summon and Transport, in particular, when used RAW, can completely take a campaign off the rails without the PCs breaking a sweat. I've stopped BBF for now, especially with the high-level groups, and instead switched to Savage Worlds and Tiny Dungeon.
That being said, there are few systems that I love more than DwD's d00lite. If these problems can be ironed out, I will certainly be one of the first to dive back into the game. I love Savage Worlds but the rules are kind of all over the place when I'm playing with the younger audience; Tiny Dungeon is okay, it's simple enough, but it doesn't have that dynamic feel which BBF had when I first started GMing it.
I think that it is great that We are having a healthy debate on this forum about the new BBv2. There is nothing worse than no debate because that means people are indifferent.
However: It takes all sorts I guess and you won't please everybody. I like the Scout skill and the Scholar skill. If you just go from A to B without effort or the need to forage, or cross that river without a bridge, if you don't need to know what something is, then we are just cutting out the narrative to create and win Glory. My players too have done the math and still want to increase attributes in order to 1. Improve several skills a little but several at once and 2. To see their characters grow in a meaningful way.
Imagine if someone was poisoned by a creature and the GM wanted a scholarly or Scout skill roll to identify an antidote herb to create the antidote required. I’ve got players that want to role play and aren’t to bothered about Roll play.
As for magic being powerful… I’ve played D&D for decades and believe me fireball is way too powerful. If magic isn’t too powerful it becomes mundane and every character becomes equal but just individually different, (very Millennial) I don’t want my fighters to be as powerful as my mages. That is why mages are special and rare, magic is enchanting and why it captivates. It’s a question of Merlin or Gwain or Gandalf or Faramir.
A level 3 caster does 3D damage on a successful offensive strike casting. An average of 16-17 points of damage. level 3 archer with a DEX of 66 does 2D+4 damage per successful hit. An average of 15. I don't see the difference as ridiculous.
Hard Luck Ink's Breaking bones supplement already has rules for spell points to limit, at least a little, higher level caster power by making spells limited to spell point expenditure, Although I think X5 per level is too high and prefer X3. I just don't see a problem.
I believe the term is Min/Maxing although I could be wrong. The desire to win and as fast as you can, to be the most powerful and take part in exciting battles. Frodo barely lifted a sharp stick in anger, yet it was him and not Gandalf or Aragorn who defeated the necromancer. Some players, (generally older ones) don’t want to win. They want to tell a story, to be part of myth and legend. BB clearly has its limits. It is the Barebones after all. I think however, the system with very little tweaking runs well.
I for one want more and not necessarily different.